America = Secular

I had a discussion recently with a person who.. ummm.. let's just say, goes to church on occasion, likes the fact that our "boys" are kicking some terrorist ass, and likes George Bush.

The topic - the guiding principles of religion in the "founding" of the United States. Having the facts on my side, I thought this would be a rather fun discussion. So I went and compiled the below information for my "friend". I don't expect a response from him, and I don't expect it will change his point of view. After all, if a person had an open mind, they wouldn't be bat-shit crazy in the first place, would they?

It's just such a shame that so many American's are so ignorant of the facts. After all, this is the country we live in. Shouldn't we all understand clearly it's guiding principals? If more people understood this, they would know how truly un-American the Christian right wing is in this country. They would know how evil Pat Robertson is. They would know that the very meaning of what the United States stands for, and what thousands upon thousands of fine men and women died for, is under assault from a minority that wishes to impose its craziness and fascism on us.

If the men that wrote our Constitution were alive today - George Bush would be attacking them. Tom DeLay would be calling them "activists". John Cornyn would be "wondering" about violence against them.

So anyway..

If you look at the Federalist Papers, you'd know that the founders saw ancient Sparta and renaissance Venice as the best models for government. Those two systems were chock full of checks and balances preventing any single entity or president from making reckless policy. The founders didn't like Athens as a model either--they saw a series of demagogues rousing the mob to war with disastrous military and financial consequences.

The bible only enters US law to the extent that it influenced English common law, and even there it's part of a hodgepodge including Roman, Viking and Norman law. In other words, it's of very limited importance.

The truth is, there is no basis for a constitutional government in the bible, or any religious document for that matter. Religious institutions throughout history generally aren't very friendly to a democracy. They are more like monarchies. Do a word search on the Constitution and see how often the word "God" appears. If this nation were founded, in any sense, on God or Jesus, the names would appear there. You will find zero, count with me again please folks, zero instances of the word "God" in the United States Constitution.

Now what did the "founding fathers" actually think about religion? Lets look at their own words, shall we?

Benjamin Franklin

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." -- Benjamin Franklin , _Works_ Vol.VII, p.75

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -- Benjamin Franklin, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught

"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin

Thomas Jefferson

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith." -- Thomas Jefferson

"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise.. affect their civil capacities."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."--Thomas Jefferson, _Notes_on_Virginia_, _Jefferson_the_President:_First_Term_1801-1805_, Dumas Malon, Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1970, p. 191

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association on Jan. 1, 1802, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 16:281

John Adams

"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams in a letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, John A. Haught

And, lest there be any interpretation of the above quotes that don't quite spell it all out, lets spell it all out. The secular nature of the United States is documented in treaties.

"As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Messelmen, --and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohammedan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever interrupt the harmony existing between the two countries"--Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, Article XI, written by Joel Barlow (USA diplomat) and Hassan Bashaw (of Algers), late during George Washington's second term and later ratified by President John Adams. Original and copies preserved in the national Archives in Washington, DC. under Treaty series no.358. Official Senate treaty found in the American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II p. 18-19. "Treaties and Other International Acts of the United States of America" vol.2, edited by Hunter Miller, US. Government printing office, 1931, p.349-385.

Now, knowing that religion has no place in government, it's time we take "In God We Trust" off the currency, and restore the currency to it's original secular purpose - trade. After all, the phrase was only added in 1864. Clearly the founders of our government would be appalled by such action.

From the Department of the Treasury.

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:
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Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.
One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.
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The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

As a result of the religious activism, GOD was added to the currency of the United States. The religious crowd would have you think that this nation was founded as a Christian nation and the secularists are attacking it. Clearly the truth is the exact opposite. It is the religious crowd that seeks to destroy the most beautiful principles ever enshrined as a basis of government.

Life - liberty - pursuit of happiness. ALL men are created equal.

None of that has anything to do with God or Jesus. Worship or not as you personally see fit on your own. Please help stop the destruction of the American way of life.