Monday, April 05, 2010

Man Invented God

Doug actually approved some comments to one of his easter posts. I think it's because I didn't word it like I usually do.. which is.. "if you love the Jews so much, why aren't you constantly warning them they are going to burn in hell all the time?"

He doesn't seem to like that much.


Thomas
So what, exactly, is he saving us from?

Douglas V. Gibbs
Yourself, and eternal separation from God.

Thomas
Myself? Doesn't that assume something about me, or about anyone in a more general sense?

Is it that "original sin" thing? Somebody else supposedly did something wrong, and now that has something to do with me? I really don't follow that.

What is "eternal separation from God", exactly?

I also wonder about Jesus' "sacrifice". How could it be much of a sacrifice if Jesus knew that he wasn't really mortal like the rest of us, and that he'd simply rise from the dead? I wouldn't be worried about dying today if I knew that in 3 days, I'd be fine and walking around again.

People sacrifice their own lives for others all the time. It's probably very common. Why was it different when Jesus did it, especially knowing that it wasn't really a sacrifice. A soldier throwing himself on a grenade.. now that's a true sacrifice. That soldier knows he will be dead, end of story. He doesn't get the luxury of knowing ahead of time that he'll be resurrected in a few days.

Douglas V. Gibbs
Ourselves meaning our fleshly nature. Free Will gives us the opportunity to reject. That is true love, accepting Him even though we have the option to reject Him. Eternal Separation could be whatever you want to call it, be it Hell, eternal damnation, a sulphur fire, whatever. The true hell of it all will be eternal separation. As a non-believer eternal separation may mean nothing to you, especially if you reject the idea of the existence of God in the first place, but in the spiritual scheme of things, when the separation occurs, should you be one to reject the gift of salvation, it will be apparent at the time it commences. As for Christ's sacrifice, His sacrifice was not death, it wasn't even the torture He went through (although I must say it was horrid enough that one could say it was a sacrifice). The true sacrifice was that upon His moment on the cross He bore the sins of all time, past, present, and future, to the point that the horrendous nature of it caused Him to cry out (remember, at that point, He was wholly man) "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me!" That sacrifice of bearing the sins of all of mankind is something none of us would be able to do, nor would wish upon anyone.


Thomas
That still doesn't make any sense to me. If he took the sins of all mankind, that's really irrelevant to each individual. I am my own person. I am not you, or anyone who came before me, nor somehow tainted by merely being born. You are always espousing the characteristics of "individual responsibility", yet are completely socialist when it comes to original sin. Why can there not be a human being born, and live a life without sin, without Christ, and still be "with" God in the after life?

You ever stop to consider that your god has all the characteristics of a human being? Chief among them is ego. God demands his worship. I've seen you say things along the lines that we are even required to "worship" him.

It goes even further than that. All Abrahamic religions have one god, which is a fairly novel idea in the history of humanity, which much preferred many gods. Your particular brand of it excludes everyone else who worships Yahweh, but not Yahweh on earth, i.e., Christ. Even though you and, say, Jewish people or Muslims, worship the same exact God, you insist that they are to be "separated" from God because they reject the "salvation" of Christ.

Doesn't it ever seem odd to you that you are completely convinced that all of those other people are going to burn in a "lake of fire", or whatever metaphorical language you want to use for "separation".. even though you all worship the exact same god?

How do you explain that?

I'm sure you know from simple demographic studies that people who identify themselves as Christian are less than the majority of people in the world. I'd have to look up the actual percentage, but I know it's less than 50%. Would you agree with that? If so, then you'd also agree that more than half the people that die every day are going to spend an eternity "separated" from God.

I've asked you that question in many ways, many times. You always delete the comment. I'd simply like to know how you feel about that? What is your opinion of a god that does that? What is your opinion of Christ, that allows that? Why is that such a difficult question to answer? I'm truly curious about that one.

When you consider the requirement that all must belong to one particular brand of religion, or burn for all eternity, doesn't that strike you as a man-made construct? If you wanted control.. real control.. over people's lives.. their property.. their money.. everything that they are about, would not the cleverest way to do that be giving them the answer to the ultimate question? Wouldn't it be a great idea to scare them into your church?

Doesn't religion (and God as well), seem totally human?
Message awaits moderator approval

4 comments:

taursmindonesia said...

Allah is the Almighty God, where is the Throne that can not be known by humans. he had arranged all this with the very imperfect nature. He does not need anyone to help him govern the physical universe, so no Bener if anyone says that God had a son. if the assumption is correct then it is considered perhaps as where God takes a child, not he himself did not membuthkan one assistance including assistance by a child

Tom said...

That was completely incoherent.

Anonymous said...

So in the heat of the sacrifice, Jesus felt a separation and doubted God's love as well? "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me!" In that moment of utter chaos, Jesus questioned God's motive even though conceptually they are the same entity. Can you actually doubt God and his motives and still be the savior from all sin? Hummmm... I'm so confused. :-)

Tom said...

As well you should be, because it's a bunch of ancient hooey.

The christian god is a dick.