For those that argue that this nation is not founded upon Judeo-Christian principles apparently didn't notice those words - "created" and "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence. This also dismisses the current version of what people believe to be the "Separation of Church and State." That separation was designed to ensure that the government did not get into the business of the church, not the other way around. - Super LoonGod damn Doug.. the thing was written by a Deist you moron.
Do you understand what a "creator" is to a Deist?
The document had nothing to do with "Judeo-Christian" values, no matter how much you want to lie about it (and you do it often). We've been down this road many times - and you even make my case by highlighting the word "creator" in the Declaration of Independence in the first place.. written by Thomas Jefferson, one of the predominately NOT Christian founders of this nation.
Do you know who James Madison is? I suspect not.
Madison himself often wrote of "total separation of the church from the state" (1819 letter to Robert Walsh), "perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters" (1822 letter to Livingston), "line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority... entire abstinence of the government" (1832 letter Rev. Adams), and "practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States" (1811 letter to Baptist Churches).Furthermore, Jefferson wrote about the Establishment Clause - specifically creating a "wall between church and state", as he himself described it.
How fucking stupid do you have to be to reference the secular works of a Deist in making the case for creating a Jesus flogging theocracy that never was intended? This is exactly why I call you a shitty writer Doug. A perfect microcsm, as it were.
Leave it to the loon to bag on liberals in his Independence Day post.
Wanker
The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State." - Justice Hugo BlackAnd that is exactly why "faith based initiatives" violate the Constitution of the United States.
7 comments:
I don't think anybody ever said anything about a theocracy, dipshit, only that it was wrong for the government to dictate religion - but see it's always against the Christians, not any other religion: case in point - http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html where the schools are making special concessions for Muslim Prayer - but screw the Christians. Hypocrisy at its highest asshole - and I loved your comment at my site, it showed how stupid you really are. "Assholes" are those that don't listen to reason, and have only taking you down in their mind. But you are too much of an asshole to recognize that.
I don't think people realize that when they talk about "Judeo-Christian" values that those values were actually around long before christianity. In fact, they were around long before the 10 commandments.
See, the first codified form of laws, the Hammurabi Code, has all of the particulars of the 10 commandmants, as do the tenents of Confuscism and Budhism.
Don't Kill, Don't Steal, Don't Chea, Don't Lie, Respect people of a higher station.
All of those have been in every codified form of law ever written. That's right, EVER WRITTEN! The only thing that differs is the punishment for said offences and the exceptions and/or adherence to those laws.
The United States of America was founded on basic moral principle. Lets run through this point by point eh?
1. 7/9 Founders of this nation DENIED THE DIVINITY OF CHRIST. They were deist and beleived in a creator but not in a christian God.
Your response: Nothing. It's fact. It's hard to deny things that are fact without using bizzare rationalizations which, actually, I still expect.
2. Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin ( I use them because they are the predominant Desists of the 7) wrote paper after paper about the neccesity of a seperation of church and state and it being vital the the well being and longevity of any state. Take an inventory of world governments run by religion. Any of them sound like great living spots to you? Screw living, how about just vacationing? Religion ruins government. It has never worked. NEVER.
Your response: Apparently you think creator means God. Why, then, didn't they put God instead of creator? Maybe they meant Vishnu? Or Ahmen-Ra? They never put a name to this creator, but you assume it is of Abrahamic origin. Why not Zarathustra or Zarathuastrianism?
3. Numerous court rulings and government documents, both international and otherwise, refuting the assertion.
Your response: They suck. Yeah..okay.
So really, you lose this arguement so utterly and completely that only illogical, irrational, and misplaced faith is keeping you afloat. You desperately need this to be true or your world view falls apart. I have a feeling you call Doug a lot asking him questions about these sorts of things. Quit relying on Doug and start thinking for yourself.
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.
William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
amuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
There are endless quotes that illustrate the point.
But facts never bother leftists, to bother a phrase from a friend, lol
to bother a phrase from a friend?
Wow, and you criticize others linguistical approach. Yowza
As for a quote war...
Thomas Jefferson:
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
This one is particularly comedic
History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1972
The ordinary reverence, the reverence defined and explained by the dictionary, costs nothing. Reverence for one's own sacred things--parents, religion, flag, laws and respect for one's own beliefs--these are feelings which we cannot even help. They come natural to us; they are involuntary, like breathing. There is no personal merit in breathing. But the reverence which is difficult, and which has personal merit in it, is the respect which you pay, without compulsion, to the political or religious attitude of a man whose beliefs are not yours. You can't revere his gods or his politics, and no one expects you to do that, but you could respect his belief in them if you tried hard enough; and you could respect him, too, if you tried hard enough. But it is very, very difficult; it is next to impossible, and so we hardly ever try. If the man doesn't believe as we do, we say he is a crank, and that settles it. I mean it does nowadays, because we can't burn him.
-Mark Twain, Following the Equator
And one that I think is perhaps particularly poignant...
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
Martin Luther King Jr.
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